Halaal....but serves alcohol!!

[DiamondLady Mema-Eemah]

As Salaamu Alaikuum Sisters......

What would you do if you go to a Halaal Resturant, be seated, order your food and then afterwards find out that they serve alcohol there?

After surfing the net for some Halaal Resturants in NYC, I came across one that does indeed serve alcohol and that question came to mind.



Naimah (eemah1) [kitty]

[Lallipathi]

ASA..i would leave..no offense...

Lalli

[mush]

ummm..are we not supposed to go to restaurants or hotels tat serve alcohol?

i didnt know tat..could someone produce the daleel?i guess cos if we go there,we are like encouraging it?

sometimes we go for brkfst or coffee here...to sheraton..they serve alcohol in the evenings..are we not supposed to go??? :?: :?: :?:

[virginiamama]

Walaykium Salaam

We have never drink before but go to restaurants that serve alcohol, so we probably will stay.

[virginiamama]

A'salaam Alaykium

At the end of the fatwa it says its ok to eat in restaurants that offer halal food, and serve alcohol but not to sit with the people who are consuming it, than it also says it is shameful for a restaurant to serve halal food and alcohol together.

I guess with everything you have to use your better judgment cause than some would have to question some of the Muslim markets that sell halal food, but also sell porn from the back room.

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503547038

[LaylahH]

I will stay but not sit with people consuming alcohol. If I didnt eat at restaurants serving liquor I wouldnt be able to go anywhere but burger king and mcdonalds. :-(

[ummi2mybabies]

loool sis kemi and even mcdonalds and burger king arent halal.


i would leave i rather eat at home if they serve alchol. they have a nice vegetarian buffet here called sweet tomatoes its really good yummy yummy . and also we go to cici pizza becuase youssef loves it but we dont eat anythign with meat .

[Umm Sayfullah]

Assalam alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh
Astaghfullah i would leave if i found that the restuarant is selling alcohol
Wa alaykum salam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh Umm Safiyyah

[Humayraa]

I didn't vote in this poll. I'd need a fatwaa saying what is Islaamically correct and I'll follow what it states, inshaaAllaah.

I honestly had stopped going into places which sell alcohol, with the exception of the grocery. In the grocery I'd not walk through the liquor isle.

After a while, it became exhausting, and I stopped letting it bother me, so yes, I have been to places which sell alcohol to eat, even after I'd stopped doing that. I just make sure that what I'm ordering is halaal an ignore the rest.

This isn't really an issue for me now, as dh NEVER eats out, so everything is home cooked and eaten at home, Alhamdulillaah.

OFF TOPIC:
Sis Asiddqui, why aren't Mc Donalds and Burger King halaal? We're allowed to eat the meat of the ppl of the book, and from what I thought I undersood, most of the animals (with the exceptions of pigs of course) are slaughtered by christians and sometimes jews, therefore once you're living in the USA or Europe, you can safely assume that all meats are halaal, unless evidence comes to you specifically stating otherwise. All the meats which dh and I eat have been slaughtered by the ppl of the book. Is there something particular about those 2 places, like they fry with pig fat? Just checking, cuz when I'm in transit I usually do eat Mc Donalds.

[virginiamama]

A'salaam Alaykium

I have heard some discussion on this about the Christians and Jews not being the same (in belief) as the ones of yester years, as they do not say the Name of Allah over the animal before slaughter as they was back in the day, also their belief today is not the same, as they do not (atleast the Christians) believe in Monotheism as Christians and Jews was believing in long ago.

We will eat other meats since their is also some issues on Muslims and if the meat they sell is slaughtered properly or even if they really believe as Muslims should believe.

We say the name of Allah swt over our meats and pray He accepts what we do.

[Umm Ibrahim]

Assalaamu alaikum,

If I went to a 'halal' restaurant that served alcohol I think I'd be asking them WHY? And yes, then I'd leave.

Alcohol is prohibited at every level; growing the grapes for the alcohol, selling the grapes to someone if you know they will make it into alcohol, making alcohol yourself, sitting with people who partake etc etc.

I wouldn't want to be surrounded by people drinking the stuff and wouldn't want to give my money to Muslims who think it's ok to sell it.

Nicola

[Humayraa]

Bismillaah was Salaatu was Salaamu 'ala Rasulillaah

wa 'alayki as Salaam wa Rahmatullaahi wa Barakaatuhu sis Carrie

I've actually heard that too. I was of that opinion as well. I would only eat that which was slaughtered by muslims. When dh and I moved here, I was horrified that there hardly any muslims, and no meats slaughtered by muslims. I argued that very point you mentioned to dh. He then gave me some daleel which stated otherwise. To be sure that this still applied today, I asked a scholar about it, and he confirmed what my dh said, that it is applicable and that the meat of the people of the books is halaal for muslims.

The basic rule regarding the food and meat of the People of the Book is that it if Halal. A Muslim can eat their food and marry their women, as stated in the following Ayat:

"Made lawful to you this day are At-Tayyibat [all kinds of Halal (lawful) foods, which Allah has made lawful (meat of slaughtered eatable animals, etc. milk products, fats, vegetables and fruits, etc..). The food (slaughtered cattle, eatable animals, etc.) of the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) is lawful to you and yours is lawful to them. (Lawful to you in marriage) are chaste women from the believers and chaste women from the believers and chaste women from those who were given the Scripture (Jews and Christians) before your time, when you have given their due Mahr (bridal-money given by the husband to his wife) desiring chastity (i.e. taking them in legal wedlock) not committing illegal sexual intercourse, nor taking them as girl friends. And whosoever disbelieves in the Oneness of Allah and in all the other Articles of Faith [i.e. His (Allah’s), Angels, His Holy Books, His Messengers, the Day of Resurrection and Al-Qadar (Divine Preordainments)], then fruitless is his work, and in the Hereafter he will be among the losers." (Al-Ma’idah 5:5)

People of the Book specifically means Christians and Jews. Scholars have discussed in great detail exactly what is meant by the expression "People of the Book" and whether or not that meaning would change with time. The majority of scholars say that the meaning of People of the Book has not changed and should not change with time, even if the Christians and Jews deviate more in their path from the True Path and regardless of how much they practice of their religion. The reasons for this understanding are very simple. Firstly, all or most of these deviations existed even before the revelation of the Quran to our Prophet (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam), yet Allaah (SWT) called them the People of the Book. Second, Allaah (SWT) did not mention in the Quran - and He surely knows that they are going to change. We should not, therefore, pay attention to these changes, and should treat them, in every way in which we deal with them, as who they are - People of the Book.

A respected scholar who lived at the turn of the century, said in his book of Tafseer: "Allaah (SWT) prohibited us from marrying Mushrik women, yet He (SWT) also permitted us - in a clear and direct manner in the same Ayat - to marry the women of the People of the Book. Since marriage is more important than eating, we should not, therefore, put any restrictions on the rulings derived from the Ayat regarding their food or who they are." (Tafseer al-Manar, B1 / P353)

It should be pointed out that the Dhabeehah of the People of the Book is Halal regardless of whether their country is considered to be part of the Daar-ul-Harb (at war with Muslims) or Daar-us-Salaam (at peace with Muslims). Imam Nawawee has reported on the consensus of scholars on this matter (al Majmuu’a, V9 / P68).

All scholars have understood food in the above Ayat to refer to meat or Dhabeehah of the People of the Book. One should now ask the question: Are all the types of food and meat used by them Halal for us? The answer to that can be summarized by stating that what our Deen has shown us to be Haram will always be Haram. Therefore, all the ruling discussed above apply to their Dhabeehah with one exception - the invocation of the Name of Allaah (SWT) over the slaughtered animal. The same conditions for the Halaal requirement of Dhabeehah, are considered again, in this time with the People of the Book in mind:

1. According to Al-Ma’idah 5:5 mentioned above, Muslims can only eat good and pure meats. Therefore, the flesh of swine, blood, dead animals, etc. are not permissible for the Muslims to eat - even items (e.g. pork) currently eaten by the People of the Book.

2. No names other than that of Allaah (SWT) should be invoked over the animal. If such is done, the Dhabeehah becomes Haram according to Abu Hanifah, Shafiee and Ibn Hanbal. That is the ruling if we actually hear these names invoked at the time of slaughtering. If we do not actually hear them, scholars have said that the ruling is not to ask about it. This ruling is supported by the majority of scholars.

3. According to Abu Hanifah and Ibn Hanbal, the Dhabeehah to the People of the Book is not Halaal unless they invoke the Name of Allah (SWT) over it. According to Malik and Shafiee, however, invoking the Name of Allah (SWT) is not a requirement, and the Dhabeehah is Halaal. This latter opinion is supported by the following:

· The fact that the Al-Ma’idah 5:5 declares their meat to be Halal without imposing any restrictions such as the invocation of the Name of Allaah (SWT) over the animal. Therefore, their meat is Halal for us as long as it does not belong to one or more of the ten Haram categories discussed above.

· In a Hadith narrated by Aisha (RadhiAllaahu 'anha), she said:

"Some people told the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam) that some people brought them meat and they did not know whether the Name of Allaah (SWT) had been spoken over it or not. The Prophet (sallallaahu 'alyhi wa sallam) said: ‘Speak the Name of Allaah over it and eat.’" (Reported by Al-Bukhari and Abu Dawood)

This Hadith shows that non-Muslims were not used to invoking the Name of Allaah (SWT) during the time of the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam), and that the invocation was required of Muslims because the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam) had told them to invoke Allaah’s (SWT) Name before eating. That can be interpreted to mean: because their meat is permitted for you, you can eat it, just be mentioning Allaah’s (SWT) Name over it, and it does not really matter whether or not they (People of the Book) had invoked Allaah’s (SWT) Name over it because it is not required of the People of the Book.

· Allaah (SWT) has permitted us to marry women of the People of the Book, and it is well established that the husband cannot force his wife to be a Muslim or to practice Islaamic worship. Similarly, we cannot ask the People of the Book to invoke Allaah’s (SWT) Name over an animal they slaughtered, because they are not required to do so.

· If one considers Surah Al-An’am 6:121: "Eat not (O believers) of that (meat) on which Allaah’s Name has not been pronounced (at the time of the slaughtering of the animal)…" (Al-An’am 6:121) together with the fact that the People of the Book do not invoke Allaah’s (SWT) Name, one may get confused. But the paradox is answered by considering the following: The meat of the People of the Book is exempted form the restriction. The Quran prohibits Muslims from marrying Mushrik women but at the same time has exempted women of the People of the Book from the prohibition.

Based on this discussion and other evidences, the following conclusions have been drawn:

1. All meats prohibited in Islam are ALWAYS prohibited, even if the People of the Book eat them.

2. If a Muslim hears a Christian or a Jew invoking the names of other than Allaah (SWT), he should not eat from the Dhabeehah. But if he does not hear them, he should not ask about it, either.

3. We cannot force the People of the Book to invoke Allaah’s (SWT) Name when slaughtering. Hence, their Dhabeehah is Halaal even without the invocation.

4. The slaughtering procedure used by the People of the Book should not kill the animal before slaughtering it.

I am not trying to tell sisters to do other than that which they prefer to do, rather I'm just trying to provide the evidences for the rulings on matters. I prefer to do things this way, as opposed to just saying things that I've heard, or that I feel without evidences. It is not my intention to offend or insult anyone, and I apologize in advance if I have. This is what has been presented to me on the subject, and it is on this basis that I now eat the meat of the people of the book. May Allaah guide us all to that which is pleasing to Him, spare us the punishment of the hellfire and grant us all jannatul firdaws, Aameen. Fi amanillaah.

Humayraa

SubhaanakAllaahumma wa bi hamdika ash hadu anlaa ilaha ila anta Astughfiruka wa atu bu ilayk

[DiamondLady Mema-Eemah]

May ALLAH reward you Sis Humayraa for posting all of this for us eager Sisters here in the Cafe' [hug] .


Naimah (eemah1) [kitty]

[umm_maryam]

Yeah sis Humayrah, Barakullaha Fikki for posting and sharing. I just come around this post. You post something i was looking for a long time. May ALLAH reward you for. Ameen.

[Humayraa]

Aameen sisters Naimah and Nadine. May Allaah reward you both for all the good you have done in this life, Aameen. Wa feeki sis Nadine, and to you both...baraak Allaahu feekunna. (((MEGA HUGS)))

[umm_maryam]

Ameen Wa Fikki

[heart22] [hug]

[bunny]

humayraa:


We're allowed to eat the meat of the ppl of the book, and from what I thought I undersood, most of the animals (with the exceptions of pigs of course) are slaughtered by christians and sometimes jews, therefore once you're living in the USA or Europe, you can safely assume that all meats are halaal

The imam in my area had told us that even though we can have meat slaughtered by ppl of the book, in America, none of them do the slaughtering- it's all done by the machines, so we should avoid it.

[bunny]

I avoid eating in places that serve alcohol because I believe that we should stay away from places where haram is taking place. On the other hand, I do go to the grocery store.

It really limits the places we can eat, but I feel that it is better for our emaan and deen. It does not feel good to be eating in a restaurant and see all these people committing this sin around you at the neighboring tables.

And if this was a place that said they're serving halal/zabiha food, I would not trust them if they're also selling alcohol! If I had already placed my order and then noticed the alcohol choices on the menu, I would cancel my order and leave- and have done that before.

[aishamommy]

[smilie=111281salams.gif]

I voted to leave but only if the owners and the servers were muslim I would not give them my money when they are doing some haraam.
if that makes sense

aishah

And Allah knows best

[sheila]

[smilie=111281salams.gif],

I would leave the restaurant. I understand that it is not lawful to sit with those who are drinking alcohol. It would be approving of their drinking of it.
Actually, 21 years ago, I was visiting with my mom during the Christmas holidays. I was getting my one year old son and myself some breakfast. My brother and his wife came over and my mother served them some alcoholic drinks. I quickly returned to my room that I was staying in.
As far as the meat is concerned, we really don't know how it was killed. Perhaps the animal is shot in the head and then it is slaughtored. If it is, then we would be eating dead meat. Also,...the Islamic way of slaughtoring allows the blood to be forced out of the body. Therefore, any way of killing an animal without the blood leaving the body might not be acceptable, and anyone eating such meat might be eating blood. Allahu alum.
In Islam, there is a principle which goes.... if you don't know if something is halal or not it is better to avoid it. Therefore, I would like to encourage the sisters to avoid meat in which they do not have any knowledge about how it was slaughtored. When I was still living in The U.S. I was refusing to eat meat that wasn't halal...because for all I knew I might be eating dead meat or blood!

[smilie=111281wsalams.gif]
[smilie=281sisterniqabi.gif]

Sheila from Jordan

[miss helouah]

[smilie=111281salams.gif]

Jazak Allahu Khair for the info sis Humayraa.. Although i have a question.. Well as u said we are permitted to eat meat that is slaughtered by the people of the book, but nowadays animals don't get slaugthered like in the old days. Most of the times they are shot dead and all blood is not allowed to drain from the aminal. So i was wondering if this still can be halal? I'm a bit comfused on this one...

As for the restaurant, i would prefer not to go to a restaurant that sells alcohol, as I would be supporting their haram actions.. In my eyes, it would be the same as going i.e. into a casino for a meal..

[Humayraa]

[smilie=282wsalam.gif] sis Aisha,

Wa iyyaki ya habeebati.

I'll pm you the answer inshaaAllaah...